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	<title>The Ongoing Adventures of Mr. Christy</title>
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	<description>Learning to Live Outside Corporate Church</description>
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		<title>The Ongoing Adventures of Mr. Christy</title>
		<link>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com</link>
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		<item>
		<title>Read a good article&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2009/02/08/read-a-good-article/</link>
		<comments>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2009/02/08/read-a-good-article/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Feb 2009 16:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Community]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hope for the church]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/?p=202</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And I thought I would share it with you.  All the King&#8217;s Women + All the King&#8217;s Men It seems as life continues on, there are 3 main themes that are found in almost every situation.  Now I know this is a generalization but it is repeating enough for me to notice it.   1. [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=longtimerunning.wordpress.com&amp;blog=4851092&amp;post=202&amp;subd=longtimerunning&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I thought I would share it with you.  A<a href="http://nathanweselake.typepad.com/nathan_weselake/2009/02/pragmatic-holiness-and-the-aquisitive-kingdom-part-5.html">ll the King&#8217;s Women + All the King&#8217;s Men</a></p>
<p>It seems as life continues on, there are 3 main themes that are found in almost every situation.  Now I know this is a generalization but it is repeating enough for me to notice it.  </p>
<p>1.  Me &#8211; I have a role in everything that happens to me and around me.  That doesn&#8217;t mean I have control of what is happening but I do have a role.  My perspective of church, family, money, etc can either be positive or negative.  It can be either bettering or bringing down.  I am responsible for my actions and my attitude regardless of the situation (way easier saying than doing, I know).</p>
<p>2.  Others &#8211; People have value attached to them.  This has to be true otherwise I myself have no value as well.  Therefore, if people have value, they are worth saving, helping and caring for.  I imagine this is done through small practical tasks of carrying groceries, saying hello or giving someone a piece of your time.  I think it is done through other venues as well but I don&#8217;t feel I am very good in this area.  Might come down to point #1 and selfishness.  To live without community is to allow your weakness to be unchallenged and your strengths to atrophy.  </p>
<p>3.  God &#8211; He is found everywhere.  It all leads to him one way or another.  He is the one that put the value on us and the rest of his creation.  He is the reason I question and believe.  He is the one that makes me aware of my weaknesses and strengths.  He is the one I must trust that this journey is his leading.  Nathan wrote in his article:</p>
<blockquote>
<div>Some people are victims of their past. Christians are victims of the future.  We are trapped by it.  We know and feel what this world will be when Christ returns and, as much as we are able, we act as if that reality is now.  </div>
<div><span>If</span> your view of the coming Kingdom includes personal vocation, management, leadership, and being part of various teams to accomplish amazing things and <span>if</span> it includes the idea you will continue to acquire knowledge which will help you relate to people and perform tasks better, then it behooves you to practice the best you can now and learn and lead in a &#8220;heavenly&#8221; way.  When you possess the &#8220;Kingdom&#8221; touch &#8211; everything you touch turns to Kingdom because as Richard Rohr puts it &#8220;everything belongs.&#8221;</div>
</blockquote>
<div></div>
<div>I like how he puts it.  It ties points 1&amp;2 together doesn&#8217;t it?  </div>
<div></div>
<div>So, I am realizing that these three points exist everywhere.  Not just in church where I once thought that it all comes together.  But I think that is the origin of my frustration and sadness.  It probably should be the place that it all comes together.  For now, we live with the expectations but accept the reality.  </div>
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		<title>I have a wife.</title>
		<link>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/i-have-a-wife/</link>
		<comments>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2009/01/06/i-have-a-wife/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 06:06:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/?p=195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And she is awesome and she left a comment on the last entry so if you scroll down in the comment section you can read a little of her story.  Here is the link.<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=longtimerunning.wordpress.com&amp;blog=4851092&amp;post=195&amp;subd=longtimerunning&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And she is awesome and she left a comment on the last entry so if you scroll down in the comment section you can read a little of her story.  Here is the <a href="http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/one-step-forward/#comments">link</a>.</p>
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		<title>One Step Forward&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/one-step-forward/</link>
		<comments>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2009/01/02/one-step-forward/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 06:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/?p=192</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Two steps back.  I envy those that have a simple faith.  Those that love God and simply do what he says.  I think I would love that.  But for now, I have to live with these thoughts and these questions so here goes another ranting from the lunatic fringe.     Is the church organization [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=longtimerunning.wordpress.com&amp;blog=4851092&amp;post=192&amp;subd=longtimerunning&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two steps back.  I envy those that have a simple faith.  Those that love God and simply do what he says.  I think I would love that.  But for now, I have to live with these thoughts and these questions so here goes another ranting from the lunatic fringe.    </p>
<p>Is the church organization the best way to show God&#8217;s love to the world?</p>
<p><strong>If it is just a mechanism to allow people to get together</strong>&#8230;there are many other organizations that do that far better.  <strong>If it is to come together to worship God</strong>&#8230;He makes it quite clear that he doesn&#8217;t dwell in our buildings but in us, therefore, where ever we are&#8230;he is there also.  <strong>If it is to be used as a classroom for teaching the scriptures</strong>&#8230;there are schools that are created specifically for that purpose and would be more accurate in the information transferred.  Also, the majority of the human population learns through experience and not in a sermon/one-way conversation.  <strong>If it is about giving to the poor and helping the needy</strong>&#8230;check the financial statement of your church organization.  I would be shocked if the largest expenditure wasn&#8217;t the salaries and the building.  There are far better organizations out there to give your money to that help people directly and give you great opportunities to get involved.  </p>
<p>So, here is the thing&#8230;I can&#8217;t find a reason for the church building, program, organization to exist.  </p>
<p>This is a real issue for me.  I am trying to find a way to live out what I now believe.  I used to think Jesus was a wet noodle and I was embarrassed of him and for him.  After removing a lot of the &#8216;christian&#8217; culture and religion from my thinking&#8230;I can now really get Jesus.  I can follow someone like him now that I realized he stuck up for the poor and the oppressed.  That he partied and hung out with the crap of society (just like me!).  So where do I go now to experience this?  My local church?  It doesn&#8217;t fit anymore.  People have said to me, &#8220;Let&#8217;s start a church together!&#8221; or &#8220;Come to our church, it&#8217;s alive and doing awesome!&#8221;.  I don&#8217;t think anyone is getting what I am saying.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think I fit into a church anymore.  I don&#8217;t fit.  And this applies to any church.  Sorry to offend anyone but I have been in other churches, I was raised in a very progressive church, I was immersed in church culture by my father (who I love and respect deeply) and he showed me models that worked and those that didn&#8217;t, I have read books on churches and been to classes on churches and the bottom line is&#8230;.every time I walk into the building, I cringe.  Something inside of me starts screaming and I need to get out.  </p>
<p>So this is the dilema.  Either I move out of small town Sask and get on board with something I <em>think</em> I now believe in or I stay here and keep wrestling with my thoughts and be patient.    </p>
<p><em>or</em>&#8230;</p>
<p>I stop giving a shit and delete this blog.  It would be one way of making life simpler.  But I don&#8217;t think it would solve any of my problems.</p>
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		<title>Parallel Universe</title>
		<link>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/parallel-universe/</link>
		<comments>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/parallel-universe/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 04:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Life without the building]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[The Club]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/?p=186</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Posting your personal thoughts for all to see can be a risk not worth taking.  I used to snub and mock people who blogged as I thought it was a waste of time and who cares what you have to say anyway.  Well, we all learn and I have learned that this has become a [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=longtimerunning.wordpress.com&amp;blog=4851092&amp;post=186&amp;subd=longtimerunning&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Posting your personal thoughts for all to see can be a risk not worth taking.  I used to snub and mock people who blogged as I thought it was a waste of time and who cares what you have to say anyway.  Well, we all learn and I have learned that this has become a great outlet for me to vent, to see my thoughts in front of me and to be challenged.  </p>
<p>I have encountered other people who are in similar situations as myself and that has given me hope, re-assurance and a weird form of camaraderie.  Comments left behind are &#8220;keep going, you&#8217;re on the right track&#8221; or &#8220;we are praying for you and love you&#8221;.  And these are from people across the globe not from my own town or &#8216;church&#8217;.  </p>
<p>Anyway, to get to the point, I encountered someone who in a similar situation as mine and he started a blog:  <a href="http://multiversity.wordpress.com/"> http://multiversity.wordpress.com/</a>  I love his title of Parallel Universe because I could relate to it immediately.  Since we have not been attending the club since spring, it seems that that universe keeps on trucking by and we are now living beside it or outside of it looking in.  I see more clearly now that it is a club (at least in our situation) and instead of seeing the people and the institution as being one and therefore blaming all the people associated with it, we are beginning to see the people as individuals that are part of the institution because of the same reasons we once were.  Our salvation was attached to the corporate church as not being part of the family was rejecting Jesus.  And we feared this.  We feared that attendance was our anchor and if we left, we would simply float away.  We believed that God was smiling down on us when we sang those hymns and choruses.  After reading the sermon on the mount, it seems quite clear that he is more concerned about how we are treating those around us.  Those that are lacking in hope and are in need of the basic comforts of life.  I have a close connection to someone that works at <a href="http://www.siloam.ca/">Siloam Mission</a> in Winnipeg.  Definitely a worthwhile organization to get involved in and support.  Another example of Jesus in the flesh.  </p>
<p> </p>
<p>A lot has happened here lately and I hope to comment on it in future posts, until then&#8230;seek.</p>
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		<title>Conflict and Conflicted</title>
		<link>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/11/29/conflict-and-conflicted/</link>
		<comments>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/11/29/conflict-and-conflicted/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 21:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Community]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Living in Conflict]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/?p=180</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not sure how to start this one&#8230;lots of stuff floating around.  My head feels like a punch bowl and I think somebody just spiked it.   We are starting to think that we have the plague, either that or I am developing an over zealous sensitivity as to why people are avoiding me.  And those [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=longtimerunning.wordpress.com&amp;blog=4851092&amp;post=180&amp;subd=longtimerunning&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure how to start this one&#8230;lots of stuff floating around.  My head feels like a punch bowl and I think somebody just spiked it.  </p>
<p>We are starting to think that we have the plague, either that or I am developing an over zealous sensitivity as to why people are avoiding me.  And those that don&#8217;t avoid me (not always by choice), never bring up the conversation of church and a strange awkwardness always looms.  </p>
<p>Bouncing this around with friends, it appears that people are deathly afraid of what I am going to say.  They are afraid of the unknown.  It is easier to walk away, walk around and never walk through issues.  I admit, there are times that I do the same.  There are those that I would rather avoid than have an encounter with.  </p>
<p>I have noticed that a lot of my posts are becoming a reflection of myself.  What I mean is&#8230;I start typing and as I am re-reading my post, it becomes clear to me that the very thing I am bitching about is the very thing I am struggling with personally.  It just happened right now.  This post was going to complain about all the people in our church that don&#8217;t have the guts to come ask me what is going on and would rather avoid me but I realized I am avoiding a lot of them as well.  </p>
<p>Seems that conflict is all around us and it appears that our goal is to get away from it and try to live the good life.  I am still reading  <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Hidden-Power-Electronic-Culture-Shapes/dp/0310262747/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1227940577&amp;sr=8-1">The Hidden Power of Electronic Culture</a> (I know, I am a slow reader) and I just found out that Shane Hipps, the author, is from an anabaptist background.  This grabbed my attention because most of the churches/clubs in this town are anabaptist as well.  So he goes on to address what electronic media has done to our communities and how we now deal with conflict &#8211; individualism vs. tribalism, he states:</p>
<blockquote><p><span style="color:#3208b9;">Tribal cultures are quite accustomed to this style of relating.  For an individualistic culture, however, conflict is typically viewed as a bad thing, something to be minimized and avoided if possible.  Unfortunately, conflict doesn&#8217;t go away simply because it is unwelcome or feared.  Rather it finds other, more insidious ways to disrupt communities.  It quickly finds a home in the shadowy back alleys of relationships.  Without a climate of open conflict, diagnosing problems in the community, let alone dealing with them, becomes nearly impossible.  When we learn to welcome conflict as a natural and healthy part of human community, we can dispel some of its power to be destructive.  In fact, under the right circumstances, conflict can be a powerful means of growth and intimacy.</span></p></blockquote>
<p>He also throws in a quote from Andy Crouch, &#8220;No one gets out of any serious experiment in human community &#8211; church, marriage, family or otherwise &#8211; without discovering, and becoming, an enemy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Even though anabaptist pride themselves on being people of peace (although they would never admit it), I believe the term peace has been confused with &#8220;don&#8217;t talk about it and keep the <em>peace</em>&#8220;.  Saying that we should live in open conflict is a tough sell.  </p>
<p>Hipps then goes on to pull out the covenant or pledge used in many Mennonite churches and points to the first line.  Accept conflict.  Might be a tough sell but who said life in community was to be easy?  Rewarding&#8230;yes, easy&#8230;.not so much.  </p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote>
<h3><span style="color:#3b06e4;">Commitments for Mennonites <br />
in Times of Disagreement</span><a href="http://www.petitcodiacmennonitechurch.org/sermons/2008/decisionmaking.html#two"><span style="color:#3b06e4;">²</span></a></h3>
<p><span style="color:#3b06e4;">The following guidelines may be used as a statement of commitment, to guide congregational discussions.</span></p>
<p><span style="color:#3b06e4;">The Bible guides us to seek reconciliation when we disagree. Scripture teaches us that conflict can be an area for God&#8217;s revelation.</span></p>
<h2><span style="color:#3b06e4;">GUIDELINES</span></h2>
<p><span style="color:#3b06e4;">&#8220;Making every effort to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace&#8221; (Eph. 4:3), as both individual members and the body of Christ, we pledge that we shall:</span></p>
<h2><span style="color:#3b06e4;">IN THOUGHT</span></h2>
<ol>
<li><span class="mauvebold"><span style="color:#3b06e4;">Accept conflict</span></span><span style="color:#3b06e4;">     Acknowledge together that conflict is a normal part of our life in the church.<br />
(Romans 14:1 &#8211; 8, 10 &#8211; 12, 17 &#8211; 19 15:1 &#8211; 7)     </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p></span></li>
<li><span class="mauvebold"><span style="color:#3b06e4;">Affirm hope</span></span><span style="color:#3b06e4;">     	 Affirm that as God walks with us in conflict we can work through to growth.<br />
(Ephesians 4:15 &#8211; 16)     </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p></span></li>
<li><span class="mauvebold"><span style="color:#3b06e4;">Commit to prayer</span></span><span style="color:#3b06e4;">     Admit our needs and commit ourselves to pray for a mutually satisfactory solution (no prayers for my success or for the other to change but to find a joint way).<br />
(James 5:16)</span>     </p>
<h2><span style="color:#3b06e4;">IN ACTION</span></h2>
</li>
<li><span class="mauvebold"><span style="color:#3b06e4;">Go to the other&#8230;</span></span><span style="color:#3b06e4;">     Go directly to those with whom we disagree; avoid behind &#8211; the &#8211; back criticism. <br />
(Matthew 5:23 &#8211; 24; 18:15 &#8211; 20)     </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p></span></li>
<li><span class="mauvebold"><span style="color:#3b06e4;">&#8230;In the spirit of humility</span></span><span style="color:#3b06e4;">     Go in gentleness, patience and humility. Place the problem between us at neither doorstep and own our part in the conflict instead of pointing out the others&#8217;.<br />
(Galatians 6:1 &#8211; 5)     </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p></span></li>
<li><span class="mauvebold"><span style="color:#3b06e4;">Be quick to listen</span></span><span style="color:#3b06e4;">     Listen carefully, summarize and check out what is heard before responding. Seek as much to understand as to be understood.<br />
(James 1:19; Proverbs 18:13)     </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p></span></li>
<li><span class="mauvebold"><span style="color:#3b06e4;">Be slow to judge</span></span><span style="color:#3b06e4;">     Suspend judgments, avoid labeling, end name calling, discard threats, and act in a nondefensive, nonreactive way. <br />
(Romans 2:1 &#8211; 4; Galatians 5:22 &#8211; 26)     </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p></span></li>
<li><span class="mauvebold"><span style="color:#3b06e4;">Be willing to negotiate</span></span><span style="color:#3b06e4;">     Work through the disagreements constructively. <br />
(Acts 15; Philippians 2:1 &#8211; 11)</span>     </p>
<h2><span style="color:#3b06e4;">IN LIFE</span></h2>
</li>
<li><span class="mauvebold"><span style="color:#3b06e4;">Be steadfast in love</span></span><span style="color:#3b06e4;">     Be firm in our commitment to seek a mutual solution; be stubborn in holding to our common foundation in Christ; be steadfast in love.<br />
(Colossians 3:12 &#8211; 15)     </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p></span></li>
<li><span class="mauvebold"><span style="color:#3b06e4;">Be open to mediation</span></span><span style="color:#3b06e4;">     Be open to accept skilled help. If we cannot reach agreement among ourselves, we will use those with gifts and training in mediation in the larger church.<br />
(Philippians 4:1 &#8211; 3)     </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p></span></li>
<li><span class="mauvebold"><span style="color:#3b06e4;">Trust the community</span></span><span style="color:#3b06e4;">     We will trust the community and if we cannot reach agreement or experience reconciliation, we will turn the decision over to others in the congregation or from the broader church.<br />
(Acts 15)     </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p></span></li>
<li><span class="mauvebold"><span style="color:#3b06e4;">Be the Body of Christ</span></span><span style="color:#3b06e4;">     Believe in and rely on the solidarity of the Body of Christ and its commitment to peace and justice, rather than resort to the courts of law.<br />
(I Corinthians 6:1 &#8211; 6)<br />
</span></li>
</ol>
<p> </p></blockquote>
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		<title>Attendance and Approval</title>
		<link>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/11/17/attendance-and-approval/</link>
		<comments>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/11/17/attendance-and-approval/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 01:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/?p=169</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#8217;s Sunday again.  Every week it arrives and every week we review the scene.  We are trying to figure out how the local church and Jesus go together.  How does the medium and the message of Jesus get lived out in this culture?  How are we to live our lives here in this small prairie [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=longtimerunning.wordpress.com&amp;blog=4851092&amp;post=169&amp;subd=longtimerunning&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s Sunday again.  Every week it arrives and every week we review the scene.  We are trying to figure out how the local church and Jesus go together.  How does the medium and the message of Jesus get lived out in this culture?  How are we to live our lives here in this small prairie town?  It seems that the more investigating we do, the more questions arise and more frustration.  </p>
<p>My daughter says to me this morning, &#8220;I am starting to miss church&#8221;.  I asked why and she said she misses the games they play and the contests.  What else?  Playing with her friends and the stickers they get.  She said that if we do change our mind to go back, she doesn&#8217;t want to go until next year (being next fall) because she feels that if she goes now, she&#8217;ll be so far behind in the contests/games that she will never catch up.  You may know some of these contests&#8230;memorize the weekly verse and you get a sticker for that week.  Get a lot of stickers&#8230;.get the prize at the end of the year.  Nothing like bribing the next generation of believers.  &#8221;Hey, if you sign our statement of faith, we will accredit you and you can become a pastor but if you don&#8217;t&#8230;.well, sorry no sticker!&#8221;  </p>
<p>I mentioned this to Diane and she immediately said, &#8220;Oh well, she misses the club, not church.&#8221;  And she is right.  Everything my daughter described had very little to do with Jesus and his mission and everything to do with what a club of sorts would offer.  </p>
<p>So here we are.  Stuck between voices telling us to go back and voices to start fresh and new.  In the last two weeks, I have had a lot of ideas run through my head and here they are in short:</p>
<p>1.  Shane Claiborne says his realization that he needs to stop focusing on what the local church is doing wrong and to start becoming the church as it was meant to be.</p>
<p>2.  My father&#8217;s view to do something, anything and stop bitching.  Even the smallest, positive influence is greater than doing nothing and complaining. </p>
<p>3.  The system is broken and should be abandoned altogether.  Instead of going to church, be the church and make everyday an offering to God, not just Sunday.  Get rid of the building, the paid staff, the culture and start engaging our society by giving that money to serve the poor, build orphanages, petition for justice.</p>
<p>4.  Attend the club once more because of the people.  Focus on those people and learn to accept them.  Jesus is trying to save the christians too.  Work on not letting bitterness take root but instead meet with people and try and create dialogue.  Build relationships.  </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I am so glad that we agreed to wait to make a decision until January.  Things are way to unclear right now.  The one thing that I was wondering about though.  If we attend again, does that mean we are giving our approval?  Is that what it looks like?  I see it very similar to attending a wedding in which I don&#8217;t approve of the couple getting married or maybe going to a fundraiser for a certain political party.  It is easy for people to assume guilty by association.  Reminds me of Jesus having a meal with tax collectors.</p>
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		<title>Open to Criticism?</title>
		<link>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/11/08/open-to-criticism/</link>
		<comments>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/11/08/open-to-criticism/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 03:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/?p=162</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[By the title of this post, one may think that I am about to address the lack of desire by the institutional church to open themselves up to any form of criticism but that would be way too easy (although very enjoyable!).  Instead, this post will focus on a challenge that was given to me [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=longtimerunning.wordpress.com&amp;blog=4851092&amp;post=162&amp;subd=longtimerunning&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the title of this post, one may think that I am about to address the lack of desire by the institutional church to open themselves up to any form of criticism but that would be way too easy (although very enjoyable!).  Instead, this post will focus on a challenge that was given to me during my trip out east.  After ranting for about 24 hours straight, my brother-in-law asks me, &#8220;who would you like to become?&#8221;  An easy question,  I quickly answered, &#8220;I would love to be a very accepting person, one who does not look at background, personality, beliefs but rather see people as God would see them.&#8221;  I grew up in a world of us versus them, things were viewed as very black and very white.  &#8221;Us&#8221; was defined as those that called ourselves christians and we did not smoke, drink, swear, go to parties or think lustful thoughts <img src='http://s1.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  and we always attended church.  &#8221;Them&#8221; was defined as everybody else.  I now see that judgmental attitude as very damaging and not Christlike at all so this sounded like a great answer to his question.  </p>
<p>He then turned the tables and asked if my acceptance included those that consider themselves &#8220;us&#8221;?  He was referring to who I once was and all of those that I make fun of now.  F___ing fundies! (<em>Diane made me edit it)  </em>Currently, I can&#8217;t stand the close mindedness of this sector of society.  Every time I see them it reminds me of who I was and all the terrible things I said and did in the name of Jesus.  All the years of trying to convert people to a culture and a lifestyle and doing it by guilt and pressure.  And this is still continuing!  It happens all around me.  Now he says I need to pray for them and show them Jesus&#8217; love just like I would anyone else.  </p>
<p>These people are so easy to condemn and make fun of and so very difficult to love.  Where would you even start?  </p>
<p>I have found a little help in a book that I just received called <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Irresistible-Revolution-Living-Ordinary-Radical/dp/0310266300/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1226025898&amp;sr=8-1"><span style="color:#ff0000;">The Irresistible Revolution by Shane Claiborne</span></a><span style="color:#ff0000;">.</span>  He mentioned there came a time in which he realized he could not continue criticising the church but he needed to start focusing on what he believed the church was to look like.  He changed his focus from pointing out all the bad things about the institutional church to <em>becoming</em> the church.  His stories are highly motivating and refreshing.  It is well worth the read.  </p>
<p>Open to criticism?  I thought I was but soon realized there was some fundy left in me.  The pendulum had just swung far the other way.  I guess that is why they call this a <em>journey.  </em>There is always something around the corner that puts you in your place.</p>
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		<title>Laugh it up</title>
		<link>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/</link>
		<comments>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 02:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Uncategorized]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[Here are some funny comics sent by a friend.  Enjoy.   <img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=longtimerunning.wordpress.com&amp;blog=4851092&amp;post=138&amp;subd=longtimerunning&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are some funny comics sent by a friend.  Enjoy. </p>
<p> </p>

<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image020/' title='image020'><img data-attachment-id='158' data-orig-size='350,313' data-liked='0'width="150" height="134" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image020.gif?w=150&#038;h=134" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image020" title="image020" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image019/' title='image019'><img data-attachment-id='157' data-orig-size='350,275' data-liked='0'width="150" height="117" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image019.gif?w=150&#038;h=117" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image019" title="image019" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image018/' title='image018'><img data-attachment-id='156' data-orig-size='350,320' data-liked='0'width="150" height="137" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image018.gif?w=150&#038;h=137" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image018" title="image018" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image017/' title='image017'><img data-attachment-id='155' data-orig-size='350,288' data-liked='0'width="150" height="123" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image017.gif?w=150&#038;h=123" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image017" title="image017" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image016/' title='image016'><img data-attachment-id='154' data-orig-size='350,309' data-liked='0'width="150" height="132" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image016.gif?w=150&#038;h=132" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image016" title="image016" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image015/' title='image015'><img data-attachment-id='153' data-orig-size='350,238' data-liked='0'width="150" height="102" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image015.gif?w=150&#038;h=102" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image015" title="image015" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image014/' title='image014'><img data-attachment-id='152' data-orig-size='350,276' data-liked='0'width="150" height="118" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image014.gif?w=150&#038;h=118" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image014" title="image014" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image013/' title='image013'><img data-attachment-id='151' data-orig-size='350,265' data-liked='0'width="150" height="113" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image013.gif?w=150&#038;h=113" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image013" title="image013" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image012/' title='image012'><img data-attachment-id='150' data-orig-size='350,257' data-liked='0'width="150" height="110" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image012.gif?w=150&#038;h=110" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image012" title="image012" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image011/' title='image011'><img data-attachment-id='149' data-orig-size='350,329' data-liked='0'width="150" height="141" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image011.gif?w=150&#038;h=141" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image011" title="image011" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image010/' title='image010'><img data-attachment-id='148' data-orig-size='350,321' data-liked='0'width="150" height="137" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image010.gif?w=150&#038;h=137" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image010" title="image010" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image009/' title='image009'><img data-attachment-id='147' data-orig-size='350,331' data-liked='0'width="150" height="141" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image009.gif?w=150&#038;h=141" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image009" title="image009" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image008/' title='image008'><img data-attachment-id='146' data-orig-size='350,365' data-liked='0'width="143" height="150" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image008.gif?w=143&#038;h=150" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image008" title="image008" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image007/' title='image007'><img data-attachment-id='145' data-orig-size='350,257' data-liked='0'width="150" height="110" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image007.gif?w=150&#038;h=110" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image007" title="image007" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image006/' title='image006'><img data-attachment-id='144' data-orig-size='350,483' data-liked='0'width="108" height="150" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image006.gif?w=108&#038;h=150" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image006" title="image006" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image005/' title='image005'><img data-attachment-id='143' data-orig-size='350,398' data-liked='0'width="131" height="150" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image005.gif?w=131&#038;h=150" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image005" title="image005" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image003/' title='image003'><img data-attachment-id='141' data-orig-size='350,363' data-liked='0'width="144" height="150" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image003.gif?w=144&#038;h=150" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image003" title="image003" /></a>
<a href='http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/21/laugh-it-up/image001/' title='image001'><img data-attachment-id='139' data-orig-size='350,570' data-liked='0'width="92" height="150" src="http://longtimerunning.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/image001.gif?w=92&#038;h=150" class="attachment-thumbnail" alt="image001" title="image001" /></a>
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		<title>Grateful for a good friend</title>
		<link>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/16/grateful-for-a-good-friend/</link>
		<comments>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/16/grateful-for-a-good-friend/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Oct 2008 06:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Community]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Hope for the church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Life outside the building]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[The Club]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/?p=133</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We has just finished putting the sheeting on the roof of my new garage.  It was a nice cool evening and my good friend Lance laid down on the roof and stared at the now dark sky.  &#8221;I love a 4/12 pitch&#8221;  Yep,  we had worked on a few roofs this past summer and they [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=longtimerunning.wordpress.com&amp;blog=4851092&amp;post=133&amp;subd=longtimerunning&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We has just finished putting the sheeting on the roof of my new garage.  It was a nice cool evening and my good friend Lance laid down on the roof and stared at the now dark sky.  &#8221;I love a 4/12 pitch&#8221;  Yep,  we had worked on a few roofs this past summer and they were very steep so it was nice to relax on this one.  He started fumbling his words and eventually said, &#8220;there is really no way to say this without sounding like a tard, so here it goes.  I am concerned for you.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now you have to understand, this is a good friend in which I know he cares about me because of past experiences.  He has a relationship with me that has been established and when he speaks into my life&#8230;.I will listen.  </p>
<p>He continued, &#8220;I have seen people quit the church for many reasons and the reasons may all be right but the end result was not good for those people.&#8221;  They never came back and their lives took a very negative turn.  I just don&#8217;t want this to happen to you.&#8221;  </p>
<p>I told him that we were taking a sabbatical from the building and that this doesn&#8217;t mean forever.  Things do change.  He knows all the reasons why we are absent as I have explained in the past that we could no longer agree to the legalism, the guilt motivation and the inaction.  </p>
<p>His concern is legitimate.  I have felt in my own self.  And to add on more confusion, I listened to a C<a href="http://www.tonycampolo.org/podcast/tonycampolo_podcast_Shane_Claiborne_Interview_Part_III.mp3">ampolo interview with Shane Claiborne</a>.  He wrote <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Irresistible-Revolution-Living-Ordinary-Radical/dp/0310266300/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1224137514&amp;sr=8-1">The Irresistable Revolution</a> and it is now on my to read list.  They talked about Augustine&#8217;s quote, &#8220;The church is a whore, but she is still my mother.&#8221;  They recognize all the bad things that the church has done and is still doing but they still believe it is the channel in which God chooses to use.  They both recognize the church as their mother and will not give up on it.  </p>
<p>Now this does tear at me.  It adds to my confusion, my questioning, my concern.  All my life I have believed the church is the light to the world.  It has been ingrained in me as long as I can remember.  I remember my father at a church meeting, tears in his eyes because he knows there are lost and hurting people in our community that we can help through the church.  That memory will never leave my mind, and probably for a good reason.  </p>
<p>But, is not the definition of God&#8217;s church the people?  Does there have to be the structure, the organization, the money needed to fuel such a movement?  Will anarchy take over?  Will the Spirit step in and save the day or do we need to take the reigns and believe God will help those that help themselves?  A lot of change is coming in our churches today and instead of a clear vision, I seem to be left with fog.  What I do know is this&#8230;..that I can&#8217;t go back to the guilt, the inaction and the void.</p>
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<enclosure url="http://www.tonycampolo.org/podcast/tonycampolo_podcast_Shane_Claiborne_Interview_Part_III.mp3" length="3112006" type="audio/mpeg" />
	
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		<title>Churches profit from corporate donors</title>
		<link>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/churches-profit-from-corporate-donors/</link>
		<comments>http://longtimerunning.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/churches-profit-from-corporate-donors/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 06:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[money]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[The Club]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[World Media]]></category>

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		<description><![CDATA[As previously mentioned, once a month we receive a magazine called the MB Herald.  There has been some great articles as of late that have caused talk in our household.  This particular article I feel is highly controversial as it has to do with money.  It was originally found in the Mennonite Weekly Review and [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=longtimerunning.wordpress.com&amp;blog=4851092&amp;post=123&amp;subd=longtimerunning&amp;ref=&amp;feed=1" width="1" height="1" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As previously mentioned, once a month we receive a magazine called the MB Herald.  There has been some great articles as of late that have caused talk in our household.  This particular article I feel is highly controversial as it has to do with money.  It was originally found in the Mennonite Weekly Review and was titled, &#8220;<a href="http://www.mennoweekly.org/2008/8/4/church-institutions-weigh-implications-gifts-eli-l/?page=1"><span style="color:#800000;">Source of donations raises ethical questions</span></a>&#8220;.  To sum it up, it tells of Eli Lilly, a large pharmaceutical company in the U.S. that donates a lot of money through an endowment.  <a href="http://www.lillyendowment.org/religion.html"><span style="color:#800000;">They believe that religion plays a large role in the well being of people and want to promote it.  They give to various organizations and the list of who they give to is very large.</span></a><span style="color:#800000;"> </span> </p>
<p>Some may not remember but Eli Lilly was in some difficulty not too long ago as stated in the MWR article:</p>
<blockquote><p>According to 2006 reports in <em>The New York Times</em>, Eli Lilly and Co. engaged in a “decade-long effort to play down the health risks of Zyprexa, its best-selling medication for schizophrenia.” <span style="text-decoration:underline;">The company is accused of withholding information from doctors and encouraging doctors to prescribe the drug for uses not approved by the Food and Drug Administration.</span></p>
<p>As a result, the company is now negotiating a settlement with federal prosecutors that could lead to a $2 billion fine. The company has already paid $1.2 billion to settle other cases related to Zyprexa and is being sued or investigated by 42 states.</p></blockquote>
<p>The article goes on to state that many Mennonite Brethren Churches and colleges have received donations/grants from the Lilly Endowment.  I suggest you read the full article as it is a good one.  </p>
<p>Following the rabbit trail, I thought it would be interesting to see of my old college receives cash from this company as well.  At first I didn&#8217;t see any familiar names but then after following a few links on the <a href="http://www.lillyendowment.org/religion.html"><span style="color:#800000;">Lily Endowment</span></a> website, one being <strong>www.ats.edu </strong>which is the Association of Theological Schools.  This association has a <a href="http://www.ats.edu/MemberSchools/Pages/denom.aspx"><span style="color:#800000;">long list of members</span></a> and you will probably find your church or denomination among the list.  I know I did, as well as my previous denomination and the Bible college I went to and the college my wife went to. </p>
<p>I then looked into some of the other donors to the ATS.  I didn&#8217;t have to spend much time to find the <a href="http://www.teaglefoundation.org/"><span style="color:#800000;">Teagle Foundation</span></a>.  Walter Teagle has been accused of contributing to Nazi Germany during World War II through his involvement with German chemical company I.G. Farben.  I am sure if I kept looking, I could find more and more connections to money that is not so clean.</p>
<p>Now your probably thinking, &#8220;come on, Chris!  All money is dirty!  It all comes from war, oppression, heavy handed corporations, tax breaks and on and on.  Get over it, at least it is being used for good.&#8221;  This however, is not the point I was going to make.  I would like go deeper than that argument and address church as a business.  The reason these denominations cannot say no, is because they need the money to keep operating as the first line in the article states, &#8220;Church is big business these days&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Now I could fill the rest of this post with verse after verse from the Bible to emphasize that money is a big issue and it can easily ensnare people (and organizations).  This recent discovery has only strengthened my opinion that God doesn&#8217;t need buildings and programs.  When the profits of one or two of these corporations could remove stupid poverty or provide life saving drugs to those that need it&#8230;..it pains me to think that our churches are so willing to accept it and not feel revolted by it.  The God I believe in isn&#8217;t short of cash but for some reason we have swallowed the lie that He is and that we feel the need to do something about it.  The thought that if we had more resources, better curriculum, a new projector, signage or any attempt at promoting ourselves is the way to reach people and show God&#8217;s love to them is a wrong thought.</p>
<p>I believe a good question for any organization to ask is, &#8220;Can we walk away from this money?  Can we say no?  Will we survive without it?&#8221;  If the answer is no&#8230;&#8230;we better think long and hard about who we serve.</p>
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